Employing Differences, Episode 98: Where do we start?

Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals.

I'm Paul Tevis.

And I'm Karen Gimnig.

Each episode we start with a question and we see where it takes us. This week's question is, "Where do we start?"

So this is a question that I think Paul and I ask ourselves a lot as we are working with a new or prospective client. And I actually get asked fairly often as groups are forming, when should we engage in this kind of work? When would it be useful to have a consultant? That kind of question. And I will say that I think most often, groups decide– groups or organizations decide to engage a consultant when they have a problem. And usually, when that problem has gotten fairly big, because they spend a certain amount of time thinking,"Okay, we will work on solving this problem. And we are smart and capable people – which they are – and we can solve this problem." And then at some point, it becomes, "We are too stuck and need to get with a consultant." And that's a great time to hire a consultant, for sure. My approach – my preference, actually, in my practice – is to start before, there's a big problem, because what I find is that if we can get some skills on-board, if we can kind of name at the beginning, we're trying to do a thing that none of us has ever really done before. And when I say do a thing, I mean, work by consensus, work in a collaborative space, be team oriented, let go of hierarchy, those kinds of things that we often put lip service to, we talk about, we set as intentions and goals, and we recognize the value of them, we often don't recognize how much skill set we're going to have to develop, because we're kind of stepping into a whole new world from where we've been. So for me, my favorite place to start is with skill building. And so if we can get folks to come to some classes, or to some spaces that are specifically about let's talk about the kinds of skills and communication and working with conflict and vulnerability and curiosity, what are how do we build those skills? And how do we notice where we don't have them? Because we mostly think,"I know how to be curious, I'm good at that." And then if we actually go mining that a little bit, we realize, "Actually, I show up with judgment first, that's my go to," because that's the culture we live in, because that's what we're trained to do. Not because we're bad people, not because we want to. But if we can start with that sort of skill building and self awareness of what skills we don't yet have, then when we go looking for solutions to problems, we've got something to work with. We have a chance to wrap your head around the kinds of solutions that will actually work. I know, Paul, you often enter at a different point. So I'll let you kind of talk about where you like to start.

So I also will echo what you said, which is start before you need it. Don't wait for things to get horrible. But also, the thing about learning and growth is that we don't do it until our current ways of doing things aren't working for us anymore. We actually don't develop new skills – in general– unless our current skills aren't working for us in some way, unless we have some degree of problem. And that actually makes a ton of sense. And so it's almost guaranteed that at the point where a group is actually starting to recognize that they need some some skills to work on that they have a problem. Otherwise, we wouldn't be there. But I like to be specific about what is the problem that they actually are trying to solve? Because that will motivate them to actually develop the skills. If we have this vague sense of well, maybe we should be better at being curious and vulnerable and collaborative and communication... Communication skills is one of these ones that shows up all the time. "Well, we need better communication skills." Unless that is anchored in some tangible thing where they are not getting the results they want, people are not motivated to spend the energy to learn. Because learning and developing new skills is hard. It's hard cognitively. It's hard emotionally because it requires us to go to a place where we're not skilled at something. We have to fail and admit that we have to learn and all of those sorts of things. And so while I agree that starting with skill building can be really, really powerful, oftentimes the motivation to do the skill building comes from really getting clear about what the problem we're trying to solve is. Now, the thing is, fundamentally, it doesn't matter where you start, you're gonna have to do both of those things anyway, and probably like four other things. So, in practice, what I end up doing, when I'm working with an individual or working with a group is following their energy. Where are they wanting to go? Do they want to talk about what's not working well, so that we can get really clear about the problem? Do they want to talk about and let's dig into building new skills, and let's not talk about what's going on? Because usually, if they don't want to talk about the problem, I can infer a lot of what's going on. And so I can figure out what skills we should probably be working on, and they will make the connection to the larger problem. So part of it is, it doesn't matter where you start. Just start. But I think it is important to recognize how connected about each of those things are and the interplay between them. There's another thing I'll add that you and I have talked about before, which is that I think one of the advantages of starting with skill building before going into what's the really deep problem we're trying to solve is that oftentimes, it can be really anxiety-producing to recognize and admit that there is a problem that we do not have a solution for. Sitting in that space can be really hard. And that requires a degree of stamina that you have to work on. And what that can lead to is if we have not developed a new skill, if we don't have a potential solution, we might not yet be willing to admit that there is a problem.

Yeah, and I think that anxiety piece is really important to name, particularly because – although I think we're getting better at naming mental health things and all of that and being willing to say out loud that people have emotions – we still don't talk enough about our worries, our anxieties, our fears, our concerns. And yet, they're usually the biggest thing in the room. When there's a problem, anxiety is pretty reliably the biggest thing in the room. And it's likely driven by different things for different people. So I think just sort of naming that in the spaces that you and I tend to work in, anxiety is the big barrier. Anxiety is the thing that keeps us from doing the thing that will work for us. Typically, the groups I'm working with, they don't lack intelligence, they don't even usually lack knowledge. They've read the book, they've found the thing, they've been interested. They probably wouldn't hire you or I if they hadn't done some of that. So what gets in the way? If they've got the recipe, why are they not making the fabulous meal? And it's because there is a layer of anxiety or fear or discomfort or protectiveness. Those are different words for the same phenomenon that happens. That's getting in the way. And so I think one of the places to start is when anxiety is present, but low. So if we can get better at recognizing,"Okay, something doesn't feel quite right here." And I may not know what it is. I may not be able to name what it is. I don't have a solution, so I can't see the problem. And it's probably tolerable. Yeah, we're still getting our work done. We're still moving ahead with our project. We're still functioning. But yeah, it doesn't feel quite right. I think that can be a real sweet spot for I'm motivated enough to think, Okay, let's get some skills because this could be better. But I'm not so far in trouble and anxiety that I actually can't do the work of building the skills. And so that might be that sort of sweet spot. And the ability to recognize and express and share in that anxiety is one of the first skills that we need to build because it's not there in the mainstream culture.

Yeah, it's that there needs to be enough sort of creative discontent. I'm not happy with the situation such that I'm willing to investigate alternatives. But I'm not so overwhelmed by all of the things that seem to be necessary in order to change things that I go, "Oh, there's just no way." We need we need to meet people at that place where they are up for the challenge of actually learning how to work in a different way, of learning how to show up in a different way. And so I do think that wherever we start, that's the road that we're following. We're following that thread to get to that place. And it's about moderating that appropriately. Not throwing people way into the deep end. And also, for me, there's a degree of talking about feelings. As I sometimes say when I work – particularly with engineers – the "F word": feelings. But I also talk about treating feelings as data, which is what they are. The emotional response we have to the thing is a compass for the work that needs to be done. It tells us about what's going on in the situation. And so if we can get curious about what's the layer under that, what's the patterning that we've been in for so long that now deviating from that patterning is causing these feelings to pop up, I think is a really useful thing to do. But the language that I'll use is going to be different depending on groups that I'm working with. Oftentimes, when people in a group and when the group is getting anxious, I can tell. I don't need them to tell me that. If they can name it, that's super great. But if where we are in the work that we're doing is that they haven't yet gotten to that place of being able to do it, I'm not going to make them do it. And that's sometimes where – and then this is where the road forks. What's the useful place to go? Sometimes the useful places to go immediately to that sort of inner work. What's happening here? What's the pattern? What's the feelings that are coming up? Let's dig into that. And for some people, in some groups, it's more useful to start with the external stuff about, "So how does this show up?" And actually to go deeper to the motivation, the outcome side of things? Where it's like, "Oh, okay, so when you're not good at having these difficult conversations, what challenges that does that cause for you and for the organization?" And so sometimes they need to see,"This is the results that I'm getting." That will sometimes give people the stamina to help them be up for the challenge of"Okay, so now I'm willing to actually talk about the patterning and where that comes from." And so I think there's a continual assessment of the readiness there. Are we ready to dive into where does that come from and how deep do we need to go with that? And moderating that.

Yeah. And I think I would, I would add different language, maybe, to exactly what you're saying. Everything that you're talking about fits for me in the box of "How do we create enough safety that we can pull down the anxiety?" And I think that's one of the reasons you potentially bring in an outside consultant is because the folks who are in it are in it. That pattern is there and whatever anxiety is being produced is being produced within and among them. And an outside consultant, just by the fact of being an outsider creates some amount of safety, particularly if the folks involved actually believe that that person knows some stuff. And if they think, "Oh, this is a person who knows how to do this," that brings some safety. And then, hopefully, we arrive with structures and tools and intuition and discernment and ways of saying – and this is what I'm hearing you talk through is, "What's the way that I get this group to enough safety that they can tolerate the discomfort of that sweet learning spot?" And maybe that's putting them in pairs with a very structured kind of thing. Or maybe it's naming some things that haven't been named, and that sort of transparency about it. Or maybe it's a group connection kind of exercise. I mean, there's many, many, many ways to get about this. But I'm, what sort of gelling for me as we're talking is, the place to start is the place you can find where there's enough discomfort that we want to change something. Enough sort of common purpose that we're all – if you're with a group – that we're all naming together, this is where we'd like to get to – or maybe "where we'd like to get to" is a place where we have a place that we'd all like to get to. And maybe that's the thing. But then we've got that and then that there's enough safety somehow to tolerate the anxiety that got us into the work to start with. And that can happen within the group. Or what I'm finding effective in my practice that some of how you get the safety is you put people who have similar needs and similar skills that they're after in a room with a bunch of people from different groups. So you've got sort of this peer group going but it's not your workmates or it's not all your workmates. So you can get that sort of shared learning space. So there's lots of strategies but I feel like we're we're really landing with this is where you start is the place where you have enough anxiety rolling to know that you have something you'd like to be different – whether that's a named problem or just a, "I think this could be better, I'd like it to work better" – you're willing to do some skill building, because I can pretty well guarantee that's part of the solution and an essential, an unavoidable part of the solution; and you somehow have found a space of enough safety that you can tolerate moving through the anxiety and making the changes.

Well, I think that's gonna do it for us for today. Until next time, I'm Paul Tevis.

And I'm Karen Gimnig, and this has been Employing Differences.