Employing Differences

Employing Differences, Episode 80: Is it time now?!?

November 23, 2021 Karen Gimnig & Paul Tevis
Employing Differences
Employing Differences, Episode 80: Is it time now?!?
Show Notes Transcript

"Where are we relationally? Where are we in the arc of this process? And is the thing that I'm wanting to suggest or the thing that someone else is suggesting appropriate for that phase for where we are right now?"

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Karen:

Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals.

Paul:

I'm Paul Tevis.

Karen:

And I'm Karen Gimnig

Paul:

each episode we start with a question and we see where it takes us. This week's question is, "Is it time now?!?"

Karen:

I think what we're pointing to in this question is the tendency to think we're always ready to do the thing I like to do. There's a way that I like to work. There's a way that I'm comfortable. There's a space that I'm enjoying. And we're

asking the question of:

that good thing, that good idea, that good experience, or that good method that I've used before and loved is it time for that thing now? Because I think a thing happens where we have an experience of an exercise or a method or an approach, and it's great. It works. It gets done what we needed it to get done, and it's fabulous. I was with a group earlier this week, that said, "Yeah, we use the same meeting structure every week, and it's working great for us. And we're meeting with you because our meetings really aren't going well for us, and we're not getting along very well." And I think it was a case of they had a meeting structure that had worked very well for them, but they didn't stop to say, "Is it working for us now?" And in the same way, I can imagine someone coming in and saying, "Yeah, there's this great prioritizing exercise that we've used" and Paul and I were talking about example you've had this last weekend around this "and it worked great for us,and it helped us get clarity, and we moved ahead on our project. And so we should always use a prioritizing exercise, because that will be fabulous." And we forget to stop and say, "Is it time now for that exercise?"

Paul:

Yeah, one of the things that I've carried with me for a long time has been the difference between knowing how and knowing when. It's one thing to know how to do, let's say, dot voting as a prioritization exercise. I understand the steps, I understand how to explain it. I understand how to get a group to do it. Great. But the real skill is knowing when should we actually be using it and when should we not be? What are the the conditions under which it is useful? And the conditions under which something else might be more useful? Maybe some other prioritization activity. Or maybe we don't even need to be doing prioritizing right now. Maybe we're still in the space of, we need to just be gathering more ideas rather than winnowing down the ones that we already have. And so I think that is useful for us, in general to think about. There's a frame there of thinking about, do I know how, or do I know how and when? And I think that the way that we learn when not to is by using a tool in the wrong time and noticing that it isn't working. So for example, the group that you're talking about, where it's like, we use the same meeting structure and our meetings aren't going very well, that's actually a really great learning opportunity for that. I'm sure they're thrilled to know that they have a learning opportunity. But it is an opportunity for them to go, "So what is it about the times we were using this, and we were getting good results, and the times that that we're it using now, and we're not getting the results we want? What's different between those two?" Because that's how you can start to develop some of that understanding of when. But you have to stop and notice.

Karen:

Yeah, yeah. And so I think that sort of retroactive or very current like we're already doing it is it time to keep doing it? we have to get some awareness, we have to be willing to ask the question, we have to be open to change. But that one's kind of there. We can see the results. You can point to is it working? Is there a sign that it's not working? I think it's even more challenging to look ahead. Like when someone says, "Let's do this thing," or when I'm in my own head to thinking, "Oh, I could do this thing." How do I know whether this is the moment for that good thing? And I want to say the starting point is I think a lot of times groups get stuck in this conversation where someone says, "Let's do this," and someone else says, "Eh, I don't like that." And we just get stuck in whether this is a good thing or not a good thing. And you know, I'm gonna say it's pretty rare for some I'm wanting to say, "Let's do a thing," and that that thing would always be a terrible idea. I just don't think that happens. I think in general, if somebody is bringing an idea, it's because they've had a good experience with it. Or maybe it's a brand new idea, and it's worth trying, but you don't know until you try. And so usually, I suspect that if somebody is suggesting a method or an approach or a way of doing things, and somebody else is resisting, the more interesting conversation is likely to be the"when" conversation, as opposed to "Well, that never works," or"That always works," or "This is a perfect exercise" or "This is a terrible exercise." It's probably a perfectly fine exercise. The question is, is it time now for that exercise?

Paul:

There's two things that come up for me around that. One is I like the idea of, if I suggest to a group that we're going to do a thing, and somebody says, "No, we shouldn't do that." I love the idea of just asking, "In what situations do you think we should do that? When do you think it would be a good idea? What are you seeing about the current situation that I'm not seeing that's telling you that it wouldn't be a good idea?" Because that actually brings more information in. And that kind of connects back to an episode we did a while back about, as a facilitator, when you bring a tool, and "they'll never do that." I think this is a cousin of that of the idea of,"Well, when do you think we should do that? When might it be a good idea based on what you're seeing?" So that's one thing I'm thinking about. The second thing I'm thinking about is we have an idea that we want to bring forward, and how do we know if this is the right time, or not? One of the things that I try to do is actually go, "Well, what else might I do? What are my options?" Rather than going it's either this or it's not? It's like, well, we could do A or B, or C, which of those might be a good fit here? Because if it's just A or not A, that's actually a less useful conversation. And it also helps keep me honest. Am I just getting locked into my favorite way of doing things? Or am I actually considering what the situation needs and then using that to evaluate which of my possible choices might be useful?

Karen:

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's useful to talk through some examples of sort of broad frames of what might be useful. So one of the questions I'm asking myself about whether it might be useful is, where are we relationally in the group? Are we aligned and in sync, and feeling really safe with each other? And then we might be able to move faster, or dive into decision making, or any number of sort of deeper kinds of things. Or are we in a place as a group where we're not really trusting each other? Is the reason I want to suggest a thing because we're feeling really stuck, and that stuck usually comes with some need for safety. Some level of defensiveness is in the room, that kind of thing. And so that, to me, is a measure of how much do we need to sort of slow down and bring in safety and use more structures, more directive structures, perhaps that kind of thing. As opposed to yeah, we're in pretty good alignment, things are really rolling and flowing, let's pull structure out of the picture, so that that flow just can roll along. And there are exercises that go both ways, right, that have more structure or less structure. And so just thinking about where are we relationally? And what is needed to serve the relationships well? So that's one of the factors I'd be looking at.

Paul:

I tend to think about it in terms of where in the process and the arc of how I know this thing is gonna go is the group. So, for example, I was working with a group recently where they're really still in the process of exploring a lot of what their options are. Where they're eventually going to go to is trying to create some large scale decisions about where this organization is going to go. They're doing some strategy work. And they brought together a group of people with diverse experiences and viewpoints, because they know that they need to include all of those. They can't just come up with an idea that's going to work for for one division or one part of it. And so as I've been working with them, I can tell where they are is still in that spot of learning to see and appreciate those different viewpoints. And so when I got a request of could we do some prioritization and dot voting and narrow down options, I could see that that was not useful in terms of helping them to get to where they want to go. I get why they wanted to do it because it would clean things up. It would make it clearer. They could focus on more things. But I could sense in the group, they still needed to expand their vision outward. They still needed to. And so we just needed to be pulling in more ideas rather than winnowing down the ones they had. So that's kind of how I tend to think of it. It's not purely in that I mean it is relational, still. It's how are they related to each other, They're still not an integrated whole. They're still islands of perspectives where they can't really see each other yet. And so based on that I was making decisions about what tools might be useful. And so that's certainly easier to do when you are an outside facilitator, but I think that's also something you can still do in when you're in the group. When you're part of it, you can be sensing,"Where are we relationally? Where are we in the arc of this process? And is the thing that I'm wanting to suggest or the thing that someone else is suggesting appropriate for that phase for where we are right now?"

Karen:

Yeah, and I think that frame of are we in an expansive space? Are we in a contracting space? And naming that. Because people often don't realize that there are those two phases. So are we looking for expansive exercises? Or are we looking for contracting/narrowing in/picking/selecting kinds of energy? That's, I think, another one of those arcs that, as you say, that we're looking at, in terms of what might help. Another thing I would say that I look at is, what's our urgency? Is this a time that we need to get to a decision quickly or we need to take action quickly? Or is this a time that we can slow down and maybe do better? And that we can't be fast and good, but if you rush a decision, which sometimes you need to do, you're likely not to have considered all the possible options. You're likely to miss something in the mix. And if you needed to do it quickly, that's a worth worthwhile cost. But another frame that I'm looking at in terms of what kind of an action or activity am I looking toward is, do we have to do it? Do we have to get it done right now? Or do we have the luxury of some time around

Paul:

Yes, I had very much that experience this week. And I

Karen:

Yeah. And one more frame that comes to me is do we have think decision-making is one of those places where that time element really does come up. Because groups that know how to do consensus-based decision making quickly/efficiently/well, they can often make those decisions reasonably well although in really messy, icky, tricky stuff, like not necessarily. But also if I'm working with a group for the first time, I'm gonna want to start to try and nudge them towards making more decisions in that direction, because I need to help them build the muscle, to learn how to do it. If they haven't done it yet. and we get to a spot where there's a time crunch like what some of the work I've been doing recently it's like we need to make a decision. We haven't made an explicit agreement that we're gonna do everything by consensus, and so while I'm going to nudge in that direction, it's okay, in some certain cases, I'm going to make the decision to fall back to someone needs to make the call on this. We have the 17 different things we could be focusing on. Let's figure out which three we're actually going to. And if we can't do that in the time that we have, by sort of mutual exploration and agreement, then the group is okay with with me making the call, with the senior leader in the room making the call, with somebody making the call. To go"these are the three." Because that can be of service to the group. Because if they're stuck, like they don't know how to actually move forward to narrow t down to amongst themselves, ometimes someone just makin the call, and then also being able to listen for "Is that a pr blem?" "All right, I'm going to make the call. Oh, look, that ac ually helped. Right, that he ped the group get unstuck th t helped the group go fo ward." So I think that's a a other strong piece, also of he is this time now, whenever e make a decision about an activ ty or a structure or a thing tha we're gonna do, keeping our ou

senses open to:

Did that actua ly help the group move forward? id it help them get unstuck or did it create more chaos? Mor unnecessary division? Did i improve things or not? I think sensing that is important. the right people in the room for that activity. A lot of my groups, are we doing something as a subgroup or are we doing it as the whole group? And you know, if we're trying to get input or if we're trying to make a decision, do we have the people that we should have for this thing which isn't exactly about time, but it is. Is it time now? Well, only if the right people are in the room. I see a lot of groups do this around agenda setting. They get together to do some agenda setting, and they actually have the meeting that they're planning, instead of planning the meeting, and then having it with everyone. So that's a place where I see this a lot of "Wait, this conversation doesn't belong here." Because this belongs with a larger group, or sometimes a smaller group. You know, we don't need all of us here to plan this thing. You know, three of us could really handle this. So is it time now? Is also are the right people here now?

Paul:

Yeah. So to track sort of where we've been with this, I think there's sort of four broad frames we've talked about in terms of assessing whether or not you might go forward with any particular activity or decision or things like that. One is the relational space. What is it like between the people in the room? Would this tool, or this activity, or this thing work given the relationships that are currently present and the softness or hardness of that space? That's one part. One of them is what sort of time do we have? What is the urgency with regards to whether or not this is going to work? Another is sort of where they are in the arc of the process for whatever it is that they're doing, whether that be decision making, or exploring. Does this fit into where they are? And the last part is, are the right people there? Could this group of people use this activity do this thing? Well, those are kind of the broader frames, some of the questions that we ask ourselves about, is it time now to do this particular activity? And then just kind of a few other things about it. Recognizing that with any particular activity or tool that we might use, is that the only choice that you have? Is this the only tool you have in your tool belt? Are you trapped into the dilemma of this or nothing? Or do you have real options? When you put stuff out there to suggest that it shows up, if you get some pushback against it, being able to get curious about where that pushback is coming from, what the other person is seeing, where they might think that tool might be useful and it isn't now. What the differences between your viewpoints on that are. And the other thing, is just really when you do, and you try a tool, or you try an activity or a structure, noticing how it lands. Does it actually help the group move forward? Does it get them unstuck? Does it create not the results that you want? And then probably after the fact being able to do some reflection and retrospection on what was it about that particular situation, maybe going back to those four frames to look at where there was a mismatch between where the tool is useful and what you actually had in the room there. Using that as a way to sort of build your discernment and build your muscle of knowing when and not just knowing how with that particular tool in the future.

Karen:

Absolutely. I think that's gonna do it for us today. Until next time, I'm Karen Gimnig.

Paul:

And I'm Paul Tevis. This has been Employing Differences.