Paul: 0:08

Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals.

Karen: 0:14

I'm Karen Gimnig.

Paul: 0:15

And I'm Paul Tevis.

Karen: 0:17

Each episode we start with a question and see where it takes us. This week's question is "What's possible now?"

Paul: 0:26

So, if you followed the show for a little while, you'll note that both Karen and I have been going through some transitions. Some changes, some things that are going on. And if you've listened to the episodes we've recorded recently, you may have detected a few changes in audio quality. Well, that's because things are happening. We're in different spaces where we're trying out different stuff. And one of the things that we want to talk a little bit about here today is the fact that when we go through any sort of change, there are all kinds of other possibilities. For being creative, for doing things in different ways that we might not have considered. We might have thought, "Well, we're just moving from one place to another. So therefore this is the only change that's going to happen." And we want to talk a little bit about is how do we actually take advantage of the creativity, that loosening a lot of the constraints that we might normally have, before new patterns get settled. How do we take advantage of that? What are some challenges to doing that? And how can we support each other when we're going through this in groups as we deal with change, and as we figure out what is possible now, though it might not have been possible before?

Karen: 1:40

Yeah, I think this shows up a lot with any number of changes that might happen. And of course, the thing that prevents us from taking advantage of the possibilities and the creativity, and the problem solving potential, is that we just assume we're going to do it the same way that we did. I'm in a, a new house, as Paul mentioned, changes. And if we just assume, "Well, we kept that thing in the bathroom in the old house, so we're going to keep it in the bathroom, in the new house." But, you know, the bathrooms aren't the same. And is there a more efficient use of space, or a better way to do that? Or do we just keep moving the thing that was really annoying and hard to get to where it was before, but we put it in the comparable place here because that's where it's been? Can we instead say, "Okay, a lot of things are changing. What are opportunities for improvements? Or opportunities for doing things differently in a way that will actually work better?" And so the first thing is to clear out assumptions. And to sort of say 'anything can be new'. You know, be willing to ask the questions and be willing to be asked the question. So be willing in a group for someone to say about that thing that you loved exactly the way it was and that you're sort of mourning that we're moving to a new space. Be open to that to someone else saying, "Well, what if we did that in a completely different way?" And just sort of opening ourselves to considering it. Which doesn't mean agreeing with the new way, but to really look at it and kind of cut through the discomfort of difference and unfamiliarity. And ask ourselves, "Is that new or different way possibly better? Or possibly would work for me and it's better for somebody else?"

Paul: 3:25

Mm hmm. I think one of the things that gets in the way of us doing that is the- I mean, it's the rush to the new reality. We often think that, you know, a change happens where it's like we've got the old way and then we switch over to the new way, which completely ignores the, you know, how we actually experience change and transitions. And actually, in some ways, being in the new way is very comforting. Because we now know what the new pattern is. Like, we had these patterns, these ways of working this, these- this is where we find this stuff. And being unmoored from those, and not yet having a new, can be really disconcerting for us. William Bridges, whose work on Transitions I love, he talks about 'the letting go' and 'the neutral zone' and then 'the new reality', 'the new beginning'. And he says, oftentimes, we try to rush through that neutral zone in the middle where the patterns haven't been set yet because it can be very unsettling to not know. And so I think sometimes we don't question our assumptions because we're sort of unconsciously wanting there to be the new reality. We want to be there so that we're not in that unsettled place anymore. And so one of the things that we're kind of pointing at is that it can be useful to in some ways acknowledge, and in other ways prolong, that middle section where we don't have new patterns set yet in order to find better ways of being that can sort of come along with this change. Taking advantage of that possibility, which I think means we really have to support each other in that space of being unsettled.

Karen: 4:57

Yeah. And I think that 'support each other' is really important. And we've talked more about that, supporting each other through change and other episodes. But I think that recognizing that we're going to be unsettled, and that that is a good and creative and potentially fabulously problem solving space. And one of the things that will help us do that is if we can also ask ourselves, "What's my capacity for unsettled?" "What's my capacity for'we're trying this one way and then we'll try it a different way and then we'll try it another way'"? Which is a great creative process! But if we're outside our capacity, if I'm still trying to get my work done and I can never find the tool that I need because we're now in the third place that we're trying it, that can be really debilitating and really frustrating. And which frustration shuts down creativity. So that's not going to help us be in that creative space. And so I think it's really good to say, "Okay, but these are the things that I actually do need to pin down. You know, for at least six months or, you know, whatever that piece is, I need this one to stay the way I can count on it." "I need the Tuesday morning meeting to still be on Tuesday morning. At least for the foreseeable future." "Because having that not happen is shifting to many other things in my world, whatever it is." And it may be a very small thing. Often, the things that will keep us sane are actually pretty small in terms of, you know, the difficulty doing them, or the impact of them. Except that if it keeps us sane. If it keeps us- keeps the rest of our capacity for creativity and problem solving open. And I think that the secret is the balance. To keep enough creative space that we maximize the potential of our new spaces. New, new situations, whatever those are. And at the same time, do pin down enough that we're working within our capacity for change.

Paul: 6:51

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's in recognizing that those things are going to be different, for different people, right? We talked about a few episodes back on this idea of 'are you coming with me?'. Recognizing that those things that help us calm down, that help us to feel settled and thus become creative again, are different for different people. And so having that you not assuming that the other person's experience of this is- is the same as yours, right? It's like, "I might be loving the fact that, 'Hey, we brought on somebody new into the team. And so we actually can, we can change around who's doing what. And so maybe I can stop doing these things that I have, that I always assumed that I needed to do because maybe somebody else can take it." And meanwhile, you're just going, "I have no idea who I need to be giving these expense reports to because it keeps moving.", right. And recognizing that, that those things can be, are often different for different people. And so exploring that together, right. I do like just the simple exercise, that I've done with groups before, of going,"Okay, great. What are some things that we might consider changing or experimenting with?" And in particular seeing, you know, just having people just make a list to- like, their own lists, and then seeing what are the things that pop up on multiple people's lists. Those are often rich things to explore. To talk about. And then also understand when other people say, "This is what makes me uncomfortable about trying to change that right now, too, as well." But yeah, starting to question assumptions about how things have to be when we settle in the new place and then seeing what other people's capacity for experimenting with those assumptions, I think is an important place to start.

Karen: 8:35

Yeah, I think one particular version of change that you made brief mention of, but I think is worthy of a little more comment is, the idea of when new people join. And we see this in communities where 10 or 15 years into community, you get new people moving in and for whatever reason that often happens in clusters. So you'll get 4 or 5 new households at once. And it happens in corporate world when staff changes, which again can happen in clusters or one at a time or whatever. And unfortunately they're, they- they're sort of, "Oh, everything's new and creative and problem solving"-kind of energy usually resides with the people who are arriving. And the "I don't want things to change. I'm comfortable the way they are. Don't mess with my systems" tends to reside in the people who have been there for a while. And so you can land in a conflict space about it. And so if everybody can kind of lean into empathy and curiosity about what it's like to be on the other side of it. So that you've got the newer folks looking around for, "Okay, so what are the things that are working really well and we shouldn't mess with them." And I'm not as a new person likely to see that. I'm going to have to ask and find out, "Oh yeah, we experimented with that a lot and have some sores and some scars related to that. And we don't want to go there again." We've got some things we don't want to touch. And those folks will do that better if the folks who've been there a while are also saying, "What are places we can open up?" "What are things we can reconsider?""What are things that we could think about again?" And really being willing to listen to that creative problem solving energy of newcomers. So that you get the benefit of 'what's possible now'. What skills they're bringing that you didn't have before, or whatever.

Paul: 10:22

And that we've talked before about how that- this is about when we talked about culture change. That oftentimes the people who have been in that system, in that community, in that organization, you know, for a long time, are wanting to sort of keep things as they are. There's a desire to hold on to it. And I actually think that asking the question, when there are new people coming in, of the people who are present and maybe a bit jaded and who are, you know, kind of tradition holders. Actually asking them, "Well, what might we change given that we have these new people coming in? "What are the things you would like to let go of?" What are the things that- because that's one of the ways that you can kind of enroll them in this, is allowing them to see that maybe they're, you know, there are a lot of things they do want to hold on to that are important. But there are other things that actually these new people coming in represents a real opportunity to have let them let go of that they don't want anymore! And then that can often loosen up some of that energy around the change. And to help those people who normally might maybe kind of opposed to it. To actually get involved and to see, "Oh, actually, yeah, okay, I could get on board with this because these are other things that come along with that."

Karen: 11:35

Yeah. So, to sort of sum up where we've been, we are once again suggesting that being conscious of what's going on around, and what's going on emotionally. And what's going on in the space between and getting curious about 'what's going on for me', 'what's going on with others', is really useful when change is afoot. And whether that's you're in a new space, or you've got new people, or some other kind of changes is happening in your organization. That if you can be thoughtful about what possibilities are now existing. And deliberately kind of set aside assumptions about 'this is the way we did it in the old space' or 'with the old staff configuration so that's the way we're going to do it ongoing' and get curious about what might be possible now. We're in a different space. We have different people that really there's a lot of benefit. And a lot of potential for improvement, of things working better, and feeling better, in that space. And that you want to balance that with "What are the things that need to be fixed so that we don't all get way outside our capacity for change and for new things?" And we can stay in that sort of maximum creativity space. So that balance between experimenting, trying new things, throwing around new ideas, and talking about them. And to the extent that you need to getting things pinned down so that we can keep functioning in the ways that we need to as we experience change.

Paul: 12:58

That's going to do it for us today. Until next time, I'm Paul Tevis.

Karen: 13:02

And I'm Karen Gimnig. And this has been Employing Differences.