Paul 0:08

Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals.

Karen 0:15

I'm Karen Gimnig,

Paul 0:16

and I'm Paul Tevis .

Karen 0:19

Each episode, we start with a question and see where it takes us. This week's question is "What about the people who won't?"

Paul 0:28

So this is an all-too common-thing that happens with groups that both of us work with. We get people who are very excited about some element of a thing that we've been talking about them with – maybe it's a particular way of working, it's a set of relational skills – it's something that they're really excited about bringing that to their group. And then they get to this point where they go, "But we need to get everybody to buy into it in order for this to work. So what about the people who won't?"

Karen 0:57

Right. The question gets framed "How do we convince them to come to the workshop?" And my answer is "don't." Invite them, certainly. Welcome them. But also the problem to solve is not "How do we get them to come?" The problem is "What do we do with the reality that some people won't."

Paul 1:26

You used a word in there that I love, which is "invite." If you want to guarantee that people will reject this change that you're trying to make, the best thing you could do would be to require them, to pressure them, to sell them.

Karen 1:46

Shame them.

Paul 1:46

Yeah, those would be really good ways of engaging whatever it is that already is alive in them that says that they don't want to be part of t his. Inviting them – I think – is useful, and also being ready for the fact that there will be people who don't come, who don't participate, who don't buy in, who don't do things perfectly – to embrace that reality and to identify "What can we start doing that doesn't require everyone?" That doesn't require a solution that addresses every possible case for things that might come up. How do we just get the ball rolling and start to build momentum?

Karen 2:28

Yeah. What we're pointing to here is a specific case of a broader theory, which is: We tend to think that if we have a big problem, we need a big solution. What's often true is that what we need is a small solution or several small solutions. And that our most likely path to success is to start with one thing that we can do that, we have some control over. So start with the five people who are willing to show up and do the work and start beginning the culture change or whatever that one piece is that is within budget, within resources available, within your power to control or to offer or to make happen. Start with that and see what happens.

Paul 3:16

There's a model that I work with a lot. Diana Larsen calls this one "Circles and Soup." It's – I think – originally from Peter Senge, talking about the idea of the Circle of Control, the Circle of Influence, and the Circle of Concern. Stuff that is within our control is stuff that we can just decide and do. We make a decision, we go out, we implement it . Circle of Influence is stuff that we need to get other people's buy-in in order to actually move forward with it. We do need to do some influence, selling, convincing , that sort of thing. And then there's our Circle of Concern where we can't really do anything about it, but we can decide how we're going to react to it. I sometimes say this is like the weather. I can't control whether or not it's raining, but when it does rain, I get to decide, "Do I want to just stay in the house? Do I want to grab an umbrella?" I have things that I can do that are inside my Circle of Control. One of the key places to start is by focusing on what is in your control. Those people who won't – we might think they're in our Circle of Influence. Often they're not. They're really in that Circle of Concern. We spend so much time and so much cognitive energy focusing on that, that we forget about the things within our Circle of Control that can actually start to move forward, that can be those small solutions, those small things that can actually have a big impact over time.

Karen 4:40

I think we underestimate the ability of one person or a handful of people, or a couple of people, to shift the culture of an organization. I don't want to pretend that you just, by yourself, you're fine, you can just do it, go be Superman – I don't think that's true either. But I also think that we underestimate the power that one person can have, and that if you're willing to really do the work and work on the culture change things that we talk about in all the other episodes, that it is contagious, that it does spread, that it does make a difference. Maybe not all the difference, maybe not everything you want, but one place where I think it particularly makes a difference is in your invitations. I think as you get better at this piece around how I show up in a group and how I'm engaging and am I living within the values of cooperation, collaboration space. If I get better and better at that, the likelihood that when I go to one of the "people who won't" and invite them, that I'll be able to do that in a way, or that they'll have enough faith in me or enough trust in me, or feel safe enough with me, that they'll be willing to maybe not come to the whole workshop, but try something out or begin to move in that direction increases dramatically.

Paul 6:05

One of the themes in a lot of the work that I'm doing right now is around recognizing how we co-create the results we don't want. And so one place to ask there is "What is it that you are doing that makes it so that they won't?" How can you start to show up in a different way that makes it more likely that they might? And that that's where one of those places of influence goes. In many change efforts, particularly in organizations where they're used to this notion of change management, and we have a plan for how all this is going to work and roll down and roll out, there is a tendency to build these totalizing plans that try to account for everything and then doesn't account for all sorts of human things but gets everyone enrolled. There's some interesting research out there – I'm thinking particularly of Gareth Morgan's work around working in complexity where he sort of identifies that often 15% of the people being onboard is like a critical mass number for change to start to happen. So in a group of 10 that's two people, is 20%. That if they start showing up differently and they start doing things differently that that can start to build and move forward. I think it's important not to despair when we think we only have 15% of the people, because that can be incredibly powerful. I think the other thing about building these grand totalizing plans is they're just intimidating. It's exhausting to think about doing. And so it's even like, what's the thing that you can do that's going to get you 15% of the way towards a solution, because you're likely to actually do that. When you have that critical mass of people and you're doing these small things, it builds momentum and it helps you learn. You can sort of do each of these small steps and then go, okay, we now know more about what's working and what isn't than we did before we got started. So how can we learn from that?

Karen 8:07

There's one more quick point to make about small steps, which is be careful as you're making small steps – or even steps that are like partway, but kind of feel big – that when you have small solution or part of the solution, but not the whole thing that you don't get discouraged by that. Because we do see groups that are like, "Well, we did this workshop and it didn't fix everything. So we're never going to do anything like that again, cause that was such a waste of time." I think being really careful to have sort of reasonable expectations and also a really critical eye for "What did it shift?" What can we look at, and tweak what we do, but not sort of give up on the relational work altogether or the culture shift work altogether.

Paul 8:56

That is one of the places that the question about "What about the people who won't?" comes from. Because we're trying something new or trying something different and if it doesn't work the first time, then we'll fall into that trap of "We tried it and it didn't work." I think that's one of the really well-intentioned reasons why we ask the question about "What about the people who won't?" We think that if we come up with only a 15% solution, if we only have this small victory, then everybody else in the group will write off that it was a failure and we'll never have another chance at this again. It's really easy to see where that fear comes from.

Karen 9:43

To summarize, "What about the people who won't?" See the reality that there will be "people who won't" and live in that reality instead of trying to change it. Have faith that what you can do can make a difference. Keep in mind that sort of 15% threshold and the influence that it has. Be invitational but not demanding, anytime you're trying to engage with the people who won't or who might not. And then track your progress realistically, but also optimistically and stay engaged for the next step, and the next step after that.

Paul 10:19

And those steps are all just a journey. You're moving forward. You're learning as you go. It's not from A to B in one giant step. It's a lot of little steps along the way, being conscious as you move forward.

Karen 10:31

So I think that's going to do it for us today. Until next time, I'm Karen Gimnig.

Paul 10:36

And I'm Paul Tevis, and this has been Employing Differences.