[00:00:00] Paul: Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals. 

[00:00:09] Karen: I'm Karen Gimnig. 

[00:00:10] Paul: And I'm Paul Tevis. 

[00:00:12] Karen: Each episode, we start with a question and see where it takes us. This week's question is, should we cool off? 

[00:00:19] Paul: So a common idea and actually sometimes a really useful one in conflict is the notion that there are times when the two people involved in this disagreement are so heated up about this thing.

[00:00:33] Paul: That they have lost any ability to actually engage in good relational space with each other and that if they could just simmer it down a little bit, if they could cool off a little bit, they might be able to reengage and reapproach and work things out. But there's just too many things going on right now.

[00:00:51] Paul: They're too triggered about stuff for it to work. And so the idea is, well, what if we had a cooling off period? Where we don't engage or something happens and would that be helpful? And what Karen and I want to explore here today is we do actually think that that can be helpful with some certain caveats to it and some things to think about if you're going, wow, I'm just, I'm at my wits end with this person and we need to take a break in order to be able to come back to this. 

[00:01:20] Paul: So what we want to explore a little bit today is what are some of the things to think about when you're thinking about having a cooling off period? 

[00:01:27] Karen: Yeah. And one of the real telltale signs to me that it's needed is that the rage is just growing and a really common pattern.

[00:01:36] Karen: It's not the only way it can happen, but a common pattern is that in this conflict, one person's tendency is to shut down, to block, to back away and participate less and doesn't want to talk about it. I mean, they just kind of clam up because that's their coping thing is a totally reasonable and appropriate way to cope, but it has some effects.

[00:01:57] Karen: And then the other person very often when conflicts gets heated, part of what ramps it up is that the other person's approach is there's this thing that I don't like it. I'm going to do something about it and I'm going to talk about it and I'm going to fix it. And I know who's fault it is and I'm going to tell them what they should do about it.

[00:02:12] Karen: And of course, the more stressed they get, the bigger and louder they get and the more they make their list of long reasons why that other person's behavior is so terrible and whatever. And the more they do that, the more the clam up person, the person who's just sort of shutting down and putting up shields and defending.

[00:02:31] Karen: Just defends harder, like, they double down on the shutdown. And so that very pattern, like, even the coping mechanism around the conflict is making it worse and escalate over and over again to the point that it may be even that the people around them don't find them all that rational relative to this conflict.

[00:02:50] Karen: And I think other people around them are relevant because the cooling off period is going to affect everybody. It's going to give the people who have been around and witnessing and being impacted by the conflict a chance to breathe and maybe bring their own things that they're working on, issues or whatever it gives them some space to be present in a space that has otherwise just been absorbed by this one big conflict.

[00:03:12] Karen: But also, because if we get to that point where we're just, it's only getting worse. And the only way that one person is willing to address it is absolutely unacceptable to the other one, for example. That it's fairly likely that the mechanisms that you need to get a good cooling off period are going to require some help from the people around them on the team.

[00:03:33] Paul: I've encountered this most often in work teams, right? Where you've got two people who just can't seem to work together. And at some point. A manager, the coworkers are just like, okay, you two just could you stop it? Right? Cause it's having an effect out on them. And so, but it often takes a long time for anybody who isn't a manager to be willing to step in to do something.

[00:03:55] Paul: They'd rather just, they're usually the ones who are also hunkering down and going, let me hope that nothing happens here. I think that those patterns that dance of those coping mechanisms that sort of reinforce each other is a really common thing that happens.

[00:04:10] Paul: And I think that for me, like one of the signs that a cooling off period would be useful is when because there are times when you can be like you're in it and people are still triggering each other and like poking each other and things like that, but both of them are still demonstrating an interest in solving the problem, right?

[00:04:29] Paul: And actually trying to move things forward. Coping mechanisms about self protection. And so at the point where you've reached the point where both people are really only expressing an interest in protecting themselves and not in actually solving the problem, that's a point where it can be useful for them to take a break, to simmer down, to deescalate to the point where they can get back to actually wanting to solve the problem again. Because it stops whatever the partner's behavior that is escalating them.

[00:04:58] Paul: And the cycle is for long enough that they can get back to that spot of going, yeah, okay, I actually do want to resolve this. Like I want to move. So oftentimes a question that I'll ask when I'm working with pairs or groups around this thing like this, that are in this kind of conflict is like, why is it important for you to resolve this conflict?

[00:05:16] Paul: And that often catches them into the spot of like, they no longer know, when they can't articulate that. That's a sign that a cooling off period would be a really good idea. 

[00:05:26] Karen: Absolutely. And so the caveats of a cooling off period, there are many, actually. One of which is that it has to be very intentional and very carefully contracted.

[00:05:38] Karen: And this is because if we have a sort of pseudo cooling off period, like I just decided to ignore them because I'm just not going to for a while. It's really easy for a cooling period to masquerade as a solution, as a resolution, as the conflict is all gone. And most of the groups that I work with are conflict averse enough that this is really enticing.

[00:06:04] Karen: This is the three year old's cookie jar. Okay, if we just get it to calm down for a few weeks, then it's over. It has disappeared. And that can actually happen sometimes if you can just deescalate it enough that people kind of settle back in and maybe while they're not so triggered, they have some conversations with some outside folks and go, you know what?

[00:06:24] Karen: It just wasn't that big a deal. I'm over it. Are you over it? Yeah, I'm really over it. That's okay. If you have the, are you over it? I'm over it. And we clear it. Okay. That can be the whole resolution, but I don't think that's the common scenario. So what you really want to be planning for is cooling off period with a defined and orchestrated ending. 

[00:06:46] Paul: Because one of the things about that sort of defined and orchestrated ending is that, and from my perspective, this is really important that is a bid to stay in relationship, right?

[00:06:57] Paul: That is actually indicating I do still have a desire to solve this problem, to find a way that the two of us can continue to work together, you know, that we can get past this conflict and things like that. And if for both parties to commit to that can actually be an important step to doing it, right, to getting there.

[00:07:15] Paul: But also, as you said, yeah, it can't just be like one person leaving in a huff, right, and going, I need a cooling off period, and then they never come back, right, or they, or it's unclear. Are they back? Are they like, what's going on? The sort of rules of engagement and disengagement around it actually need to be really clear.

[00:07:33] Paul: And I mean, this is boundary settings where it's the stuff where we actually need to say like, okay, so here's what we're going to do. For the next period of time, all right, and then you actually specify what that is. Here's how we're going to avoid riling each other up.

[00:07:45] Paul: And this is, as you point out, like two people who were in need of a cooling off period are often not able to negotiate that themselves. That's where they often need some help, where they need co workers, they need community members, they need a mediator, they need someone to sort of help to figure out what is actually going to help us to no longer feel the need to put up those self protective defenses.

[00:08:10] Paul: To no longer engage those coping mechanisms, we need to feel safe enough that we don't have such a hair trigger on that anymore. That's what we actually need out of a cooling off period. 

[00:08:23] Karen: Yeah. And I think one of the easy mistakes to make is to miss out one side, because particularly if you've got one person who's being really loud about it, because that's their coping mechanism.

[00:08:35] Karen: And one person who's like, I just don't want to talk about it to say, our cooling off period is we're not talking about it. Well, the person who's agitated and loud, that's not going to work for them. Because they're going to keep getting all the triggers they ever get. Basically, we're just saying now we're giving the other person what they want for 2 weeks.

[00:08:53] Karen: How's that work for me? And so we need to be thoughtful about, okay, so maybe the thing that the sort of shut down person needs is don't bug me about this. Like, let me be here doing my thing, just leave me alone. And that's the thing they need. So we build that into the cooling off period. But also, we then need to protect the other person for whatever the triggers are.

[00:09:16] Karen: So maybe somebody else tracks that the work that they're waiting for from that other person gets delivered on time, or maybe they have some kind of other assignment and somebody else is responsible for the direct interaction there for a period of time, some sort of job switch. 

[00:09:32] Karen: Or you often have to get creative because if it was easy, that separation would have just happened. And this is why I say you often have to bring in the rest of the team to think about how can we collectively as a team create a space where these irritants aren't happening. And you got to take care of enough of the irritants for both people.

[00:09:53] Karen: You can't just put a prohibition on talking about it and think that's going to solve it. I mean, maybe it does, but probably not. 

[00:10:01] Paul: And what this points back to is something that we've talked about a lot on the show that like, this is why we work in teams and why we live in communities so that when we are not at our best, the people around us are a resource that we can draw on to actually help us work through some of this stuff, that we often aren't capable of doing this on our own.

[00:10:20] Paul: And many of us will end up in one of these situations more than once, you know, as sort of thing. And so, like, while that might seem like, oh, this is a big ask for, like, the people on my team to like, I'm thinking about a couple of different configurations of this that I've seen in various different workplaces.

[00:10:38] Paul: But it's just like, that is the thing of like wishing when there's a conflict like this going on where these two people need a cooling off period, boy, howdy, does nobody else want to be involved in making that happen and they need to be because these people can't do it themselves. And then going, what is everything that we can do?

[00:11:00] Paul: That we are willing to do to kind of help keep the peace for long enough for these people to get back to the table, right? And I think that's the other thing that, as you said, like, sometimes the cessation of hostilities is mistaken for a lasting peace that can happen is that they go, okay, great. So it's just, nobody's blown up about this in the last three weeks while we've had, you know, whatever agreement in place.

[00:11:26] Paul: So therefore it's done. We don't need to deal with it anymore. And the actual like closing of the loop, the coming back to the table, like doing the repair work that we've talked about a lot before is really critical to that. And that if you don't build that into the cooling off period, that's one of the ways this just really goes wrong, right?

[00:11:47] Paul: It's just to leave it open ended and vague because then still resentment stews and things like that. And I've seen this happen in workplaces where, you know, one person is just like, they're fed up with this and they go to their boss and they're like, could you switch me to a different team? Right? And so then they go off to a different team.

[00:12:04] Paul: And so the two people aren't working together anymore, and so they just, they no longer are blowing up at each other. But you put those two people in a room again, and it's just, it's right back to where it was before. Because they never actually did the repair work after they cooled off. They never resolved what the thing was they never reengaged and they never really rebuilt the relationship and so it's just waiting the flare up again. 

[00:12:28] Karen: And also they didn't learn whatever it was about themselves that they might have learned through that repair work that would help them be better at relationships across the board.

[00:12:39] Karen: And so the likelihood that a similar flare up happens with a different coworker at some point is pretty high. So I think that as we're setting it up, we definitely want part of the cooling off agreement is after an hour, 3 hours, a week, 2 weeks, a month, depending on the conflict and life and situation and whatever it might be a range of times.

[00:13:02] Karen: But there's a set amount of time, and there may be that the individuals are going to work with a mediator, a formal mediator, or an informal mediator, but, or maybe they each have somebody that they're going to be talking to that's going to be helping them think about what's my part of this and what kinds of solutions I'm able to bring, like, that kind of starting to think through things that can happen during a cooling off period.

[00:13:26] Karen: But then there also needs to be an agreement that on this day, probably at this time. We're going to have a conversation and maybe it's going to be facilitated because the person who was all shut down doesn't feel safe with the person who's been nagging and complaining. Maybe. So, what are those things?

[00:13:44] Karen: So, do we need a facilitator? And what are the topics going to be? And one of the topics I would encourage you to include in that is requests. So, maybe there has to be a review of what happened. Usually, I don't find that actually turns out to be that helpful. But what is helpful is going forward, the thing I'd really like from you is would you be willing to and that kind of framing where each of them makes the requests and so each has a turn to say, this is what I need.

[00:14:16] Karen: And the other has a chance to get curious about. Okay, well, why did they add? And is that a thing I could do and get honest about an answer? Like, that's that path forward that's really key. Sometimes an individual just has a need to be heard about their experience of the thing that can be part of it.

[00:14:33] Karen: If that need is in the room. I don't assume that. Sometimes you need it. Sometimes you don't. And it's fine if you do. But if you don't, boy, you can save a lot of energy not going back through it. But that piece about what would we request from each other? I think it's pretty key. 

[00:14:48] Paul: That points to like what it's also useful to do during the cooling off period, which is as soon as you can, right?

[00:14:56] Paul: To start to be able to go, what's the positive work that I could actually do to rebuild this year? So doing that self work around going, what would I actually need from this person to be able to engage with that? Like because the danger is you just go and you stew. Right. And you build your case against them. 

[00:15:13] Paul: Oh, so when we get back together, I'm going to have 17 more arguments I didn't have before, like use it to actually cool off. And that's often like a good cue that you are ready. You're really ready to have that reengagement conversation to be going, look, we're going to get back together in two weeks. And the thing that I'm going to ask both of you to do, right? If I've got two coworkers who have been bickering like nobody's business the whole time, they've worked together and I'm their boss and I'm saying, here's what we're going to do, we're going to do this, and in two weeks, here's what I want you to do.

[00:15:43] Paul: I want you to come with a set of things that would make this relationship more workable for you. Requests for your partner that they could actually do. Don't ask for stuff that you have never seen them do before. We've talked before about like not asking people to do things that they can't do, right.

[00:16:03] Paul: Making reasonable requests, but to get really honest with yourself, if you're one of the people engaged in that conflict about like, what do I really need in order to be able to move beyond this? That is some of the best work that you can do doing it during a cooling off period, because now you're well set up to do that re engagement work when you come back.

[00:16:23] Karen: And it's possible that the reengagement work, you will calmly and rationally figure out that in fact, we need to be on different teams. Or whatever, like, I don't want to dismiss that as a possibility, but it is way more likely to be a good and useful choice. Once we've taken time to get out of the intensity, done the work we can do, learn what we can about ourselves.

[00:16:49] Karen: Yeah, and maybe one of the things that I learn is that I don't work well with a particular personality type and that has to be yours and that's not your fault. I mean, this is the thing is we hope we can leave. However, that separation is going to happen that it happens without a lot of blame and judgment.

[00:17:05] Karen: And from a much more helpful place of, okay, I've learned what it is about me that doesn't work in this situation, and I've gotten clear. This is what I need to be effective in this space. And it's gotten clear that you can't give it to me. Okay. We can agree to go our separate ways. Now that doesn't always mean it's easy to figure out how that's going to happen.

[00:17:25] Karen: And, others are involved and it affects teams and all of that. So it can be messy, but I think it's useful to have done the cooling off period, even if the eventual outcome is we still need a separation. 

[00:17:35] Paul: And because it's going to be messy to do that work anyway. Imagine how hard it's going to be to do when you're still furious at each other, again, from a pragmatic point of view, if you're able to come to that and go, yeah, this just doesn't work.

[00:17:49] Paul: We're not going to be able to find a way to make that work. And this is about the space between for us in this instance, just doesn't work. Right. There's a compatibility problem here. And so to recognize that in a cooled off state gives you a much better chance of sort of executing the separation in a better way than doing it when you're still angry.

[00:18:10] Karen: So we're talking today about cooling off and particularly when there's conflict and, you know, in the space we work in where there are teams. Very often, there are two people in conflict, and that's affecting everybody else, and that when we see the signs that people are so agitated, so triggered, so upset, that every interaction just builds on that. And very often you get sort of competing, defense mechanisms, coping mechanisms, where one is getting louder and more distant and more demanding.

[00:18:44] Karen: And the other is getting more withdrawn, more away, more shut down. When we see that, and it just keeps escalating, nothing's getting better. Very often what needs to happen is we got to get everybody out of their triggers. We just need some time to cool off. And we're saying to do this carefully under a clear contract.

[00:19:04] Karen: It's for a defined amount of time. It very often involves other members of the team, helping figure out how to remove the triggers, create some separation. Doesn't necessarily mean those two people won't talk to each other, but it probably means they won't complain at each other. And if there's a particular behavior or, you know, if it's a missed deadline on a particular type of project or something like that, finding a different way for the interface to happen so that the person who needs that is getting it.

[00:19:31] Karen: And that we don't just cool off by telling everybody to stop talking about it, we cool off by looking at what's triggering and getting those triggers to calm down and settle down and just give everybody some relief. And then we want to make sure that we come back. We don't do the, okay, we've all got some relief now.

[00:19:48] Karen: We don't have to talk about it. Just went away. This is not the case. Do not be fooled. It might be the case it actually can happen, but it's so unlikely that I'm going to say it's really important not to assume that. So, you can get together and say, you know, what, I don't know why I was so upset. Like, I don't need to be that upset about it.

[00:20:06] Karen: I'm good. You good? Yep. We're both good. That's fine. But failing that, you want a structured conversation. It may be facilitated that it may even be a requirement that somebody has to be willing to commit to it. And you want to be covering what are the things that each person needs to make the relationship go forward.

[00:20:24] Karen: And we recommend sending that as a request. And out of that, you either find a space where each person can do enough of what the other person is asking that you can have a functioning working relationship or living relationship or whatever situation you're in or not. And even if the answer is not, we're saying that after the cooling off and the trigger is sort of at rest for a little bit, you can come back and have a calm, useful conversation.

[00:20:50] Karen: That still has some of that self learning and self understanding, even if in the end we decide we're not going to work together. 

[00:20:57] Paul: Well, that's going to do it for us today. Until next time, I'm Paul Tevis. 

[00:21:01] Karen: And I'm Karen Gimnig, and this has been Employing Differences.