Introduction to Employing Differences

[00:00:01] Paul: Welcome to Employing Differences, a conversation about exploring the collaborative space between individuals. 

[00:00:08] Karen: I'm Karen Gimnig. 

[00:00:09] Paul: And I'm Paul Tevis. 

[00:00:11] Karen: Each episode we start with a question and see where it takes us. This week's question is, why do I keep doing this?  

Recognizing and Shifting Patterns

[00:00:19] Paul: So one of the things that Karen and I talk a lot about on the show is sort of recognizing patterns in groups, in behaviors, and trying to find ways to shift them.

[00:00:29] Paul: We actually did a whole series on this back in episode 179 and 180, where we're talking about in a group, there's someone who is acting out in some way who's being difficult. You know, what do we do about that? And what we identified was don't try to change the other person's behavior. Try to mitigate the impact that behavior has as a group.

[00:00:48] Paul: And that's generally a thing that we recommend. And so, when we're in conflicts or when we're in a difficult situation, go, okay, this is what's happening. This is the impact that's happening, so what could I do instead? And it doesn't necessarily have to be a conflict, right? It could be like, oh, I noticed that we keep drifting off topic in meetings and in fact, I keep going off on tangents, right?

[00:01:07] Paul: It's not, I have a part of this and we might look at the situation we might recognize. This is the impact that that has. So here are some options of things that I could do differently. You know, some choices that I could make, some behavioral changes that I could make that would mitigate that impact, right?

[00:01:24] Paul: That would get us a better result. And so, sometimes I come up with those, you know, three things, three to five things, and I try one of them and it works and it's great. And other times I just keep doing the same thing that I've always been doing. What's up with that?

Neurology and Behavioral Patterns

[00:01:38] Karen: And I gotta say, for me, at least more often than not the first few rounds, I do just keep doing the thing the way that I've always done it. And the reason is that the way I've always done it is there for a reason. It wasn't foolish, crazy, useless, worthless. The first time I did it. The first time I did it that way.

[00:01:57] Karen: I did it that way because I had learned it. Probably early in childhood, possibly before I had memory. But there is something about that situation that tells me this is how I am supposed to behave, and whatever that is, there's a story attached to it. And when the little neurons go through my brain of, okay this thing is happening, this situation is happening, that sends my little neurons through the same path that they were traveling on the last 200 times this thing happened. 

[00:02:30] Karen: Or the last five times or whatever it was. And so I land in the same place again. And so unless I can go plant somewhere on that path, a stop sign or a yield or a something that says, wait, I've been here before and I've done a thing before and it put me in the place.

[00:02:49] Karen: I don't wanna go and I'm gonna rewrite, like I have to create a new. Intersection on that pathway, that gives me a choice to say, okay, this time I'm gonna do something different. And the thing is that in the moment when we're in an uncomfortable situation, and we probably do have all attached to that pathway, all the signs that say warning danger, sharp, curve ahead, you know, like stress, be stressed is what those signs are all saying.

[00:03:16] Karen: Right. And so as the stress level goes up, my presence, my creativity, my ability to shift habits goes down. And so this is why, the short answer to why is neurology. It's how we're made. In the same circumstance, do the same thing, and we're trying to break it. 

[00:03:33] Paul: Yeah. 

[00:03:33] Paul: And it's tricky, right? And the more anxious and stressed we are, the more likely we are to take the path of least neural resistance, which is the thing that we've done.

[00:03:43] Paul: Tons and tons and tons and times before we really want to, oh, 'cause we're just, it's like to go back to the driving metaphor, we're just, going, oh, the light's green. I'm supposed to go right? And we've kind of, as opposed to going, oh, there's a roundabout ahead. Hold on. I need to pay attention and go, well, how do I merge in?

[00:04:00] Paul: What do I do? Like we actually want to slow down and become intentional. And it's really hard to do that in those situations. 

Coaching Clients Through Change

[00:04:07] Paul: This is something that I work with a lot of my coaching clients on, right? We do this as groups, but we also do this as individuals. And we see this gap between what it is we know that we want to do and what it is we actually end up doing.

[00:04:20] Paul: And for example, one of the things that I often work with clients on is, I'm working with managers who have made it really far in their career by getting things done, by jumping in and fixing things when they need to fix. And, you know, when their team drops the ball, they come in and they save the day.

[00:04:36] Paul: And that's often deeply patterned behavior that often goes back to childhood. Like they learned that from somewhere and they've been super successful at it. Like it's gotten them to where they are now and they're feeling super overloaded. And like, I can't take a break. If I go on vacation, I come back, my team hasn't gotten anything done, what can I do about this?

[00:04:55] Paul: And that's where they're going, I wanna shift this. And I recognize I have a piece of it. The piece is I keep jumping in and saving it. And so they have to start to really think about, well, what is it that I wanna do instead? So they've gotta come up with those options. But then the thing that I often do is we go, okay, so if you think about doing one of these other things, like letting the thing fall through. 

[00:05:17] Paul: Because you recognize like the consequence of it failing isn't gonna be that bad for the project. Like the other person can go back and redo it later. Right. You don't need to do it. They could redo it and then I have to go. And what's terrifying about that to you?

[00:05:30] Paul: Because there's usually a story there about how if it's not perfect the first time, or like the value that I bring is about making sure that the standards are high and it gets done. Like we wanna dig into what do we think the consequence of the new behavior is gonna be? And what are we uncomfortable about with that?

[00:05:52] Paul: So that we're not surprised by it in the moment. Because if we know that it's coming, we can then potentially do some stuff about it. 

Identifying and Rewriting Stories

[00:06:01] Karen: And I wanna point out here that when we say what is this underlying story that we know is coming? It's often a story that in our best moments we know it's not true. We know that's not a real consequence.

[00:06:11] Karen: We know that's not actually what's gonna happen. So when we're asking this, what's terrifying question, we're not asking what's terrifying on your best day, when you are totally socially relationally aware and thinking about this with, say your coach, for example, we're asking you what's terrifying to your unconscious?

[00:06:28] Karen: What's terrifying to your inner five-year-old that learned to behave this way for a reason? And is therefore continuing to behave this way so that it's about getting in touch with that unconscious story, the one that you maybe haven't thought about in decades, but that is still actually driving. And so this is that curiosity thing of, okay, so if I didn't know better, I can peel off my like great adult, self-taught, personal growth learning.

[00:06:58] Karen: Like peel off some of that, what's underneath all of that clever adult? And go back to the very clever child who for very good reasons, learned that this is a way to be successful. What's the thing they're terrified of? What's that fear place? Because that's the story you need to replace.

[00:07:16] Paul: This is vulnerable work, right? The thing, is that like the reason why it's taken us 250 episodes to get to this point, right, is that like I don't start with people asking them to go to this place of like, what's this terrifying story to your inner child? It's more like if you're able to do the cognitive, slow down, think about the thing, go, oh, it would make sense if I did this instead.

[00:07:35] Paul: I mean, I have some clients who do that, whereas suddenly, as soon as they recognize there's an option, they go, oh, I just never thought about doing it. And they go and they do it. Great. If that works. Fantastic. Right. What we're really talking about is the place where you get stuck. Where it's like, even when I know that, and I think of doing it in the moment, and then I, right. 

[00:07:56] Paul: You know, another example, that we've talked about before is, well this person just keeps interrupting me in this meeting and I can't do anything about it. And it's like, well, what could you do about it? Right. And one of the things is saying, actually I'm not finished and continuing to talk.

[00:08:09] Paul: And you know that's on the little card in front of you. I do a lot of work with people where we've got a sticky note on their monitor, so when they're on the zoom call, they're reminded of what to do, and you've got that and you see it and you can't get the words to come out of your mouth.

[00:08:21] Paul: What we're really talking about is when you get to that point is where you need to go. Okay? There is something deeper here. There's a consequence that I think is going to occur that some part of me and you often will say, irrationally thinks it's going to occur. Your brain doesn't know the difference between rational and irrational.

Practical Steps for Behavioral Change

[00:08:39] Paul: And so what I will often work with people on then is going, when you hit that moment, what's gonna help you, what's gonna give you the little nudge that might help you try to say it? Because once you start to say it, if you say it once, and the horrible thing that you think might happen doesn't happen.

[00:08:56] Paul: That's where the new pattern can start to emerge. But you've gotta find, so sometimes it's, I just need to have written out, these are the words that I'm going to say. Sometimes it's, this is the mantra I need to remind myself of. The world will not end when I say this. I won't get fired for doing this.

[00:09:13] Paul: Like, whatever is the thing you need to remind yourself or whatever the other practices are that you need in order to give you the little boost to try it, you know, to try and shift it. To do it. That's kind of where I encourage people to go, but focusing on the really narrow, small, this is not a broad thing.

[00:09:31] Paul: This is, how do I say these words in this situation so that I don't fall back into that old pattern so that I don't just keep doing the thing that I've always done. Once we start to shift it a little bit, now we start to see that we have options. 

[00:09:46] Karen: Yeah. And different words to just exactly what you're saying, but some that I think are often useful is if we can identify what's the scary story that's maybe unconscious and we can get a little conscious about that.

[00:09:57] Karen: What's the new story? So the old story is, you know, I can't keep talking when somebody else is talking because that's rude. The new story is, it's not rude to finish my sentence. Right. It's okay. That's just one example. And the thing about this is it's very personal, very situational. I can't probably tell you what your new story is, but what I can tell you is that having identified the old story, you have it within you, like you know what the new story needs to be, and there is one like that's there that you can say, okay, so the story I need to tell myself is it's okay to do this new behavior because whatever that is.

[00:10:37] Karen: If you have that story, and maybe you've repeated it to yourself a few times, put it on a card, on your screen, all those things, that is the yield sign, right? That is the thing of I'm on my same pathway. Oh, I have, there are other exits to this roundabout. Okay. And it doesn't mean that we're gonna choose them every time.

[00:10:56] Karen: And I want us to be clear about that. Like, just because you fell into the same pattern once doesn't mean you are every time. It doesn't even mean it was a bad idea to do it once. Like changing, oh, we want a new option. Doesn't mean that option's always the best thing that pattern that you're trying to get out of, there are situations in which it still serves you.

[00:11:14] Karen: I can almost guarantee it. So we're not trying to erase the old pattern. We're trying to make a new exit from that freeway. So that we can choose to stay on and do the old thing or we can do the new thing and having a new story, like putting words to a new story can be really powerful. 

[00:11:32] Paul: Yeah, I absolutely agree.

[00:11:33] Paul: The other thing that I think is really useful is to know that as well, you say that like those stories are very personal, like they're very individual. We can't tell you kind of what they are. I've worked with enough people to know that whatever your story is, somebody else also has that story. 

[00:11:49] Karen: Yes.

[00:11:49] Paul: These patterns themselves have patterns.

[00:11:52] Paul: You are not broken, you are not dysfunctional. When you look at it, you again, you go, this is ridiculous. This is irrational. You may start shooting all over yourself, right? Where you're like, well, I should just do this other thing. I shouldn't believe this thing you do, like people do.

[00:12:07] Paul: This is part of the human condition, is that we end up in these behavioral patterns that have served us really, really well. The thing is that we've inflated the story behind them out of proportion to its actual relevance, you know? And as you say, that behavior could be super useful in certain situations.

[00:12:25] Paul: The problem is that we're trying to use it in situations where it's not, but the fact that we're doing that, that's part of being human. Like, you're not broken if you're doing that. Lots of other people have these stories. I hear this from clients all the time where they're just like, they think they're the only one.

[00:12:41] Paul: No one else possibly could think this thing. And I'm like, I've talked with seven other people who have exactly that. You're like, I don't know what your thing is going to be, but whatever you've got many other people do. As I like to say, if you are one in a million, there are 1200 of you in China.

[00:12:58] Paul: It's just math.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[00:13:01] Karen: So we started today looking at, kind of picking up on the work that we talked about in 179 and 180 about when you find yourself in the same pattern relative to another person or a group of people, the same thing keeps happening, whether it's they do a thing that I don't like and they keep doing it, and I keep landing in the same place, I don't wanna be as a result.

[00:13:23] Karen: Or we as a group keep wandering off topic or whatever it is that we're doing. But we get to the point where we've thought about it, we've unpacked it, we've figured out, okay, this is what happens, and this is what we want to do instead. And then we don't do the thing instead. And why is that so hard?

[00:13:40] Karen: And what gets in the way, and what we're saying is that it gets in the way because our brains are designed to repeat patterns. And so we have this historic pattern. It was developed for a reason. It wasn't 'cause we were stupid, foolish or irrational. It was because we were smart and clever and making good choices at the time.

[00:13:57] Karen: And that if we wanna change that pattern, if we wanna give ourselves a different road that we can go on. We're gonna have to be intentional about that. We need to stop and ask ourselves, what is that unconscious story? What's that story underneath this? That's the reason that I'm doing it. That's so well rehearsed and so deep, and been there so long that I don't even put thought or word to it anymore.

[00:14:18] Karen: It's just under their driving it. What is that story? And then what is the other story that's more useful to me in this moment? Recognizing that this is absolutely normal. It happens to everyone. Whatever your story is, other people have it. And my story is not the same as your story. So it's both unique and common at the same time, and that if we're willing to kind of rehearse or give ourselves some cues, so put words to the new story.

[00:14:47] Karen: Write them down, put them on a card on your monitor, or write it on the inside of your hand where you can glance during a meeting if you need to, if you know that's coming, whatever the thing is to get just really conscious about what is the thing that drives us into the old pattern. And what is the thing that opens the path to the new pattern so that we don't erase the old pattern necessarily, but we give ourselves the choice of the old or the new, and can use whichever one is most useful to us in the current situation?

[00:15:19] Paul: Well, that's gonna do it for us today. Until next time, I'm Paul Tevis. 

[00:15:22] Karen: And I'm Karen Gimnig. And this has been Employing Differences.